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How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 10:21am
by blythburgh
To quote the beeb newsite:

(The LibDems) lMembers will vote at the upcoming annual conference on whether to adopt the new policy.

If the motion passes, the party will go into any general election campaign with a commitment to immediately revoke Article 50 (the process which started the clock ticking on the UK's exit from the EU).

At present, the official Liberal Democrats policy is to back another referendum on EU membership, in which they would campaign for Remain.ooks poised to change its position to support an outright cancellation of Brexit.


This is not democracy. If the conference backs this vote then that is democracy within the party. But it is not the democracy I can vote for. If this becomes official party policy then I definitely will not be voting LibDem at the next General Election or any other election until this stance is dropped.

I want a People's vote on the eventual deal or no deal that is on offer. I will never support a move that is so undemocratic.

At the moment I am torn as to which way to vote, Both main parties have moved to such extreme right/left it is hard to vote for either of them. Will I be forced to hold my nose and vote Labour, will I be able to vote for the party I am a member of or will I have to write none of the above on my ballot paper?

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 10:42am
by Richard Frost
You have obviously not been keeping up to date with the discussion on this and the BBC are not telling the whole story. The reason they want to revoke article 50 is so that the clock can be stopped and discussion can be had about another referendum as to whether we should leave or not then if the country still wants to leave a full discussion can be had about the type of Brexit before article 50 is re-invoked. A long winded way of doing it in my opinion.

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 10:44am
by expressman33
If we do have another referendum then one of the options should be that if there is a remain vote then we should have a further referendum in 5 years time

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 10:50am
by pabenny
Mr Joseph is correct.

To take a driving metaphor, the government currently has the foot on the brake (and Boris is revving the engine). The Liberal Democrat policy looks more like putting the handbrake on and turning the engine off - while as a country we decide whether to turn around.

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 10:52am
by Sarah
The revoke Article 50 option is only set to become policy in the event of a Lib Dem outright majority, which is very unlikely to happen, but if it does then it's effectively "the will of the people" when it happens.

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 11:01am
by blythburgh
No, not as up to date as I would like, time always runs out before I get everything done/read. But I am opposed to revoke Article 50 as it is undemocratic.

Nigel Farage said on the night of the referendum when he thought the result would be remain he would fight on.

If we have a People's vote and the result is leave I will accept it. expressman33 you should do the same if the result is remain.

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 12:35pm
by BeautifulSunshine
expressman33 wrote:
Wed Sep 11 2019 10:44am
If we do have another referendum then one of the options should be that if there is a remain vote then we should have a further referendum in 5 years time
Throw good money after bad money.

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 12:54pm
by Sarah
It's an impossible stipulation in the UK anyway; the government of now can't bind the government of 5 years time. Any such act would be repealed or amended if it didn't please the government of the day. The matter of whether or not any further referendum takes place surely should be determined by whether or not the voting public demands one (strongly enough for the government to offer one). We've already seen what can happen when other motives become the driving force.

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 2:11pm
by Chadwick
blythburgh wrote:
Wed Sep 11 2019 10:21am
This is not democracy. If the conference backs this vote then that is democracy within the party. But it is not the democracy I can vote for. If this becomes official party policy then I definitely will not be voting LibDem at the next General Election or any other election until this stance is dropped.

I want a People's vote on the eventual deal or no deal that is on offer. I will never support a move that is so undemocratic.
It is democracy.

People vote for political parties based on what they say they will do in their manifesto.
If enough people back a party, that is a mandate for that party to do what it said it would do.

It's a more direct form of democracy than a referendum. There is a built-in expectation that the winning party will put its manifesto into action.
A referendum by contrast is just an opinion poll. It requires a further separate commitment from government to achieve anything approaching the status of a GE manifesto.

Re: How dare you, Jo

Posted: Wed Sep 11 2019 2:25pm
by expressman33
Chadwick wrote:
Wed Sep 11 2019 2:11pm
People vote for political parties based on what they say they will do in their manifesto.
If enough people back a party, that is a mandate for that party to do what it said it would do.
:lol: :lol: :lol: