How dare you, Jo

Topical debate, moral dilemmas and quirky questions. Join fellow shareholders in civilised discussions of issues of interest
blythburgh
Posts: 15166
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:14 pm
Location: The Far East
Has thanked: 31849 times
Been thanked: 6162 times
Contact:

How dare you, Jo

Post by blythburgh » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:21 am

To quote the beeb newsite:

(The LibDems) lMembers will vote at the upcoming annual conference on whether to adopt the new policy.

If the motion passes, the party will go into any general election campaign with a commitment to immediately revoke Article 50 (the process which started the clock ticking on the UK's exit from the EU).

At present, the official Liberal Democrats policy is to back another referendum on EU membership, in which they would campaign for Remain.ooks poised to change its position to support an outright cancellation of Brexit.


This is not democracy. If the conference backs this vote then that is democracy within the party. But it is not the democracy I can vote for. If this becomes official party policy then I definitely will not be voting LibDem at the next General Election or any other election until this stance is dropped.

I want a People's vote on the eventual deal or no deal that is on offer. I will never support a move that is so undemocratic.

At the moment I am torn as to which way to vote, Both main parties have moved to such extreme right/left it is hard to vote for either of them. Will I be forced to hold my nose and vote Labour, will I be able to vote for the party I am a member of or will I have to write none of the above on my ballot paper?
Thanked by: dustie, kevinchess1
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

William Joseph1
Posts: 11756
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:14 pm
Location: The Isle of Dreams
Has thanked: 2758 times
Been thanked: 7109 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by William Joseph1 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:42 am

You have obviously not been keeping up to date with the discussion on this and the BBC are not telling the whole story. The reason they want to revoke article 50 is so that the clock can be stopped and discussion can be had about another referendum as to whether we should leave or not then if the country still wants to leave a full discussion can be had about the type of Brexit before article 50 is re-invoked. A long winded way of doing it in my opinion.
It is polite to thank a post. If you like it or if you feel it has helped you. Use the thumb up on the top right of the post.

expressman33
Posts: 10192
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: stockport
Has thanked: 2599 times
Been thanked: 10696 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by expressman33 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:44 am

If we do have another referendum then one of the options should be that if there is a remain vote then we should have a further referendum in 5 years time
Thanked by: dustie

pabenny
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm
Has thanked: 539 times
Been thanked: 1727 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by pabenny » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:50 am

Mr Joseph is correct.

To take a driving metaphor, the government currently has the foot on the brake (and Boris is revving the engine). The Liberal Democrat policy looks more like putting the handbrake on and turning the engine off - while as a country we decide whether to turn around.
Thanked by: dustie, im183152, Dream on

Sarah
Posts: 2612
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:01 am
Has thanked: 199 times
Been thanked: 1823 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by Sarah » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:52 am

The revoke Article 50 option is only set to become policy in the event of a Lib Dem outright majority, which is very unlikely to happen, but if it does then it's effectively "the will of the people" when it happens.
Thanked by: dustie, im183152, Dream on

blythburgh
Posts: 15166
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:14 pm
Location: The Far East
Has thanked: 31849 times
Been thanked: 6162 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by blythburgh » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:01 am

No, not as up to date as I would like, time always runs out before I get everything done/read. But I am opposed to revoke Article 50 as it is undemocratic.

Nigel Farage said on the night of the referendum when he thought the result would be remain he would fight on.

If we have a People's vote and the result is leave I will accept it. expressman33 you should do the same if the result is remain.
Thanked by: Dream on, William Joseph1
Keep smiling because the light at the end of someone's tunnel may be you, Ron Cheneler

AAAlphaThunder
Posts: 25194
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:23 pm
Has thanked: 214 times
Been thanked: 3694 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:35 pm

expressman33 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:44 am
If we do have another referendum then one of the options should be that if there is a remain vote then we should have a further referendum in 5 years time
Throw good money after bad money.
Thanked by: blythburgh
[Secretary] imutual Cashback Investment Club

Sarah
Posts: 2612
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:01 am
Has thanked: 199 times
Been thanked: 1823 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by Sarah » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:54 pm

It's an impossible stipulation in the UK anyway; the government of now can't bind the government of 5 years time. Any such act would be repealed or amended if it didn't please the government of the day. The matter of whether or not any further referendum takes place surely should be determined by whether or not the voting public demands one (strongly enough for the government to offer one). We've already seen what can happen when other motives become the driving force.
Thanked by: Chadwick, blythburgh, Dream on

Chadwick
Posts: 1762
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:21 pm
Has thanked: 867 times
Been thanked: 2232 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by Chadwick » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:11 pm

blythburgh wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:21 am
This is not democracy. If the conference backs this vote then that is democracy within the party. But it is not the democracy I can vote for. If this becomes official party policy then I definitely will not be voting LibDem at the next General Election or any other election until this stance is dropped.

I want a People's vote on the eventual deal or no deal that is on offer. I will never support a move that is so undemocratic.
It is democracy.

People vote for political parties based on what they say they will do in their manifesto.
If enough people back a party, that is a mandate for that party to do what it said it would do.

It's a more direct form of democracy than a referendum. There is a built-in expectation that the winning party will put its manifesto into action.
A referendum by contrast is just an opinion poll. It requires a further separate commitment from government to achieve anything approaching the status of a GE manifesto.
Thanked by: pabenny, Sarah, blythburgh, Fuggsy

expressman33
Posts: 10192
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:36 pm
Location: stockport
Has thanked: 2599 times
Been thanked: 10696 times
Contact:

Re: How dare you, Jo

Post by expressman33 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:25 pm

Chadwick wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:11 pm
People vote for political parties based on what they say they will do in their manifesto.
If enough people back a party, that is a mandate for that party to do what it said it would do.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 0 guests