Coronavirus/COVID-19

Discussion about miscellaneous topics not covered by other forums
Boro Boy
Posts: 5048
Joined: Mon Sep 15 2014 6:05pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 2013 times

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by Boro Boy » Tue Apr 21 2020 7:25pm

A touch of sanity in a mad, mad world: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/a ... d=msedgntp :geek:

macliam
Posts: 11226
Joined: Thu Jul 18 2013 12:26pm
Location: By the Deben, Suffolk
Has thanked: 1630 times
Been thanked: 9281 times
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by macliam » Sat Apr 25 2020 2:47pm

Bad news for those epecting an early end to all this. The WHO has pubished a paper regarding the use of immunity "passports" post-testing. https://www.who.int/news-room/commentar ... f-covid-19

They say "At this point in the pandemic, there is not enough evidence about the effectiveness of antibody-mediated immunity to guarantee the accuracy of an “immunity passport” or “risk-free certificate.” People who assume that they are immune to a second infection because they have received a positive test result may ignore public health advice"

So within this is the confirmation that immunity has still not been proven...... those who have had the virus are not "safe".
Thanked by: Richard Frost, Kelantan
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

Chadwick
Posts: 2435
Joined: Mon Jul 05 2010 4:21pm
Has thanked: 1234 times
Been thanked: 2583 times
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by Chadwick » Sun Apr 26 2020 11:13am

Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Apr 21 2020 7:15pm
Chadwick wrote:
Tue Apr 21 2020 7:11pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Apr 21 2020 3:36pm
Look at this way: time is the enemy and the Govt. needs lots of time to tackle issues so why waste time talking to small over priced suppliers? Meanwhile the cash grabbers are selling off to other buyers who may be gullible enough to pay these small suppliers.
Are you suggesting we should just let the NHS go without the promised PPE because we have run out of PPE from the reasonably priced sources?
No I'm suggesting that: time is the enemy and the Govt. needs lots of time to tackle issues so why waste time talking to small over priced suppliers? Meanwhile the cash grabbers are selling off to other buyers who may be gullible enough to pay these small suppliers. :wtf:
Time is the enemy, so rather than act quickly with the available resources, you would wait until it can be done more cheaply? Doesn't that sound contradictory to you?

The NHS is saying they don't have PPE. Not 'we must save money'.
Last edited by Chadwick on Mon Apr 27 2020 6:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanked by: Kelantan

Chadwick
Posts: 2435
Joined: Mon Jul 05 2010 4:21pm
Has thanked: 1234 times
Been thanked: 2583 times
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by Chadwick » Sun Apr 26 2020 11:17am

macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 25 2020 2:47pm
Bad news for those epecting an early end to all this. The WHO has pubished a paper regarding the use of immunity "passports" post-testing. https://www.who.int/news-room/commentar ... f-covid-19

They say "At this point in the pandemic, there is not enough evidence about the effectiveness of antibody-mediated immunity to guarantee the accuracy of an “immunity passport” or “risk-free certificate.” People who assume that they are immune to a second infection because they have received a positive test result may ignore public health advice"

So within this is the confirmation that immunity has still not been proven...... those who have had the virus are not "safe".
Usually, having had a virus does provide some immunity or lowered risk. That's basically how a vaccine works. We just haven't had a chance to prove it with this virus. The imperfect nature of the testing results means it's difficult to say with certainty that you've definitely had it previously, or if it's the same strain. It is a numbers game and there are so many other variables at play (eg there's some evidence that African/Asian people are at more risk) that it will take time to gather sufficient evidence to form a conclusion.
Last edited by Chadwick on Mon Apr 27 2020 6:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanked by: Kelantan, blythburgh

BeautifulSunshine
Posts: 26721
Joined: Tue Sep 14 2010 8:23pm
Location: [The Finest City in the World: London]
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 3686 times
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by BeautifulSunshine » Sun Apr 26 2020 5:43pm

Chadwick wrote:
Sun Apr 26 2020 11:13am
Boro Boy wrote:
Tue Apr 21 2020 7:15pm
Chadwick wrote:
Tue Apr 21 2020 7:11pm

Are you suggesting we should just let the NHS go without the promised PPE because we have run out of PPE from the reasonably priced sources?
No I'm suggesting that: time is the enemy and the Govt. needs lots of time to tackle issues so why waste time talking to small over priced suppliers? Meanwhile the cash grabbers are selling off to other buyers who may be gullible enough to pay these small suppliers. :wtf:
Time is the enemy, so rather than act quickly with the available resources, you would wait until it can be done more cheaply? Doesn't that sound contradictory to you?

THE NHS is saying they don't have PPE. Not 'we must save money'.
+1
Chadwick wrote:
Sun Apr 26 2020 11:17am
macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 25 2020 2:47pm
Bad news for those epecting an early end to all this. The WHO has pubished a paper regarding the use of immunity "passports" post-testing. https://www.who.int/news-room/commentar ... f-covid-19

They say "At this point in the pandemic, there is not enough evidence about the effectiveness of antibody-mediated immunity to guarantee the accuracy of an “immunity passport” or “risk-free certificate.” People who assume that they are immune to a second infection because they have received a positive test result may ignore public health advice"

So within this is the confirmation that immunity has still not been proven...... those who have had the virus are not "safe".
Usually, having had a virus does provide some immunity or lowered risk. That's basically how a vaccine works. We just haven't had a chance t prove it with this virus. The imperfect nature of the testing results means it's difficult to say with certainty that you've definitely had it previously, or if it's the same strain. It is a numbers game and there are so many other variables at play (eg there's some evidence that African/Asian people are at more risk) that it will take time to gather sufficient evidence to form a conclusion.
+1
[imutual Cashback Investment Club]

Boro Boy
Posts: 5048
Joined: Mon Sep 15 2014 6:05pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 2013 times

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by Boro Boy » Sun Apr 26 2020 11:19pm

Not the first article I have read over recent weeks saying it is not sure that having had Covid 19 it will protect you against future infection from Covid 19 again: https://www.france24.com/en/20200425-no ... 2463152530 That seems a worry...!

Richard Frost
Posts: 13232
Joined: Tue Jun 29 2010 8:14pm
Location: The Isle of Dreams
Has thanked: 2874 times
Been thanked: 6862 times

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by Richard Frost » Sun Apr 26 2020 11:41pm

Boro Boy wrote:
Sun Apr 26 2020 11:19pm
Not the first article I have read over recent weeks saying it is not sure that having had Covid 19 it will protect you against future infection from Covid 19 again: https://www.france24.com/en/20200425-no ... 2463152530 That seems a worry...!
Have you not read the post by macliam above yours. Nothing new or different in your post.
Thanked by: Kelantan

Boro Boy
Posts: 5048
Joined: Mon Sep 15 2014 6:05pm
Location: London
Has thanked: 982 times
Been thanked: 2013 times

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by Boro Boy » Mon Apr 27 2020 12:00am

Richard Frost wrote:
Sun Apr 26 2020 11:41pm
Boro Boy wrote:
Sun Apr 26 2020 11:19pm
Not the first article I have read over recent weeks saying it is not sure that having had Covid 19 it will protect you against future infection from Covid 19 again: https://www.france24.com/en/20200425-no ... 2463152530 That seems a worry...!
Have you not read the post by macliam above yours. Nothing new or different in your post.
Yes I did read it and thought it was a valid addition to my entry on 14th April:

Indeed, the same story with a slightly different angle from an different source/correspondent. Do you have objection to that of just wanted to have your voice heard???? Funny you certainly didn't voice that opinion when Macliam made his entry..! :wave:
Last edited by Boro Boy on Mon Apr 27 2020 2:15am, edited 1 time in total.

macliam
Posts: 11226
Joined: Thu Jul 18 2013 12:26pm
Location: By the Deben, Suffolk
Has thanked: 1630 times
Been thanked: 9281 times
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by macliam » Mon Apr 27 2020 1:06am

Chadwick wrote:
Sun Apr 26 2020 11:17am
macliam wrote:
Sat Apr 25 2020 2:47pm
Bad news for those epecting an early end to all this. The WHO has pubished a paper regarding the use of immunity "passports" post-testing. https://www.who.int/news-room/commentar ... f-covid-19

They say "At this point in the pandemic, there is not enough evidence about the effectiveness of antibody-mediated immunity to guarantee the accuracy of an “immunity passport” or “risk-free certificate.” People who assume that they are immune to a second infection because they have received a positive test result may ignore public health advice"

So within this is the confirmation that immunity has still not been proven...... those who have had the virus are not "safe".
Usually, having had a virus does provide some immunity or lowered risk. That's basically how a vaccine works. We just haven't had a chance t prove it with this virus. The imperfect nature of the testing results means it's difficult to say with certainty that you've definitely had it previously, or if it's the same strain. It is a numbers game and there are so many other variables at play (eg there's some evidence that African/Asian people are at more risk) that it will take time to gather sufficient evidence to form a conclusion.
Incorrect - full immunity only exists if the virus does not mutate and even then may just result in a lesser infection (not "immunity" as such, but increased antibodies in the bloodstream accelerating the fightback). Otherwise, we would not get colds and we would not need annual flu jabs. Testing can show an increase in antibodies, but not the effect of this increase - and false negatives are fatal in an epidemic. Therefore assumptions must be put to one side until some degree of immunity is proven, not anticipated.
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

macliam
Posts: 11226
Joined: Thu Jul 18 2013 12:26pm
Location: By the Deben, Suffolk
Has thanked: 1630 times
Been thanked: 9281 times
Contact:

Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

Post by macliam » Mon Apr 27 2020 1:25am

An update which might be of interest to those who still think COVID-19 is like the flu (and to big up the NHS).

My friend who was taken into ICU in London, 4 weeks ago is still there. He has just passed his 68th birthday (last week), was a little overweight but still active (self-employed) and had no underlying health issues.

After some days in an oxygen mask, he was placed in an induced coma for 11 days, then brought round, intubated and sedated. He remains in that state. On Friday, he rejected his feeding tube, so that had to be replaced via X-rays to ensure correct placement. His requirement for oxygen has dropped from 60% to 40% and they are going to wean him back onto a mask, his temperature is back near normal and he is still "stable" overall. However, although he has been tested, his blood still shows the virus and his family have been told it may take some time for him to get a negative result.

He is still on antibiotics, still has fluid on the lung and is also on anti-coagulents twice a day.... because his heart function has deteriorated. His kidney function has also deteriorated and they are now considering dialysis to rid his blood of toxins so they can concentrate on any possible heart issues (and to preclude kidney failure).

So, it looks like he is over "the virus", thanks to the amazing work of the medical staff, but he is still in grave danger and showing signs of impact to multiple organs.... partly due to the virus..... and partly due to the treatment (4 weeks horizontal, induced coma, shot full of antibiotics, etc., etc....) But my friend is a fighter - I am sure this has helped. The issue is that any viral load like this has immediate impacts,which can be fatal, but also has less immediate impacts which can be just as fatal, or leave serious complications.

I really feel for the medics treating him now - as they now see a multi-dimensional fight where they need to balance the positive impact of a treatment on one symptom/organ with possible negatives on others. My godson didn't understand the suggestion of dialysis, as it is invasive and not danger-free..... but I explained the impact that the build-up of toxins in his Dad's bloodstream would have ..... and the issue that many drugs have contra-indications or can't be used together. It's still touch and go.

So, I'll relax when he walks out of there...... this is a bit more than a sniffle.
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests