When does Resign mean Sacked?

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When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by pakefield » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:27 pm

Sir Mark Sedwill is the current Cabinet Secretary. He has resigned and will be replaced in September.

Basically Cummings, Johnson and Gove have forced him to resign due to their behaviour. So we take a big step towards the USA system where the Civil Service is appointed by the current Govt. and instead of being 100% independent they will be more of a puppet for the Govt.

At the moment Sir Mark will tell the Govt. some stuff they do not want to hear. They can then act on or ignore it. But it will be said.

In the future the new Sir Mark will be more circumspect in saying what needs to be said. Their job will be on the line if they do not follow the Govt. line.

Not saying the Civil Service is perfect but IMHO the current set up is like democracy, far from perfect but the best of the options.
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by kevinchess1 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:07 pm

TBH I don't think this is much different to what Blair/Campbell did in the 90's
or Thatcher back in the 80's
The Civil service is supposed to be independent of politics but are quite left wing. As are a lot of Public services companies. Which begs the question, If their is racism in all these bodies, whose fault is that?
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by macliam » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:02 pm

The Civil service is like the BBC - if you are Right-wing it appears Left-Wing, yet the Left-Wing complain about how Right-Wing it is. Both are actually very centrist, bureaucratic and stuffy - but I'd rather have someone who has spent a career putting policies into action than Cummings, who just wants to change everything for the sake of it.

The fact that Sedwill will be replaced by David Frost, who has proven himself a Boris loyalist and is to be rewarded with a life-peerage, speaks volumes. Let's not have any internal competition, let's just appoint a mate....

At what point does the public twig that this bunch of shitehawks are not just incompetent, but corrupt as well?
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm

The wise resign before they are sacked.
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by macliam » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:59 pm

AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
The wise resign before they are sacked.
No, those who want to save their pensions do..... I'd like to have seen them sack a lead Civil Servant.
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:00 am

macliam wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:59 pm
AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
The wise resign before they are sacked.
No, those who want to save their pensions do..... I'd like to have seen them sack a lead Civil Servant.
Is that because:
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean civil servant not out to get me
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by macliam » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:51 am

AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:00 am
macliam wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:59 pm
AAAlphaThunder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
The wise resign before they are sacked.
No, those who want to save their pensions do..... I'd like to have seen them sack a lead Civil Servant.
Is that because:
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean civil servant not out to get me
No :eh:
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get me

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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by blythburgh » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:42 am

The Civil Service has pointed out the downside to Brexit. So put a Brexiteer in charge.

Net result you only hear what you want to hear. Not good for working out what is best and maybe having to change your mind.

A friend was talking to DH about his 2nd marriage (a widower at the time). He lived quite a way from her and only spent a some weekends up at her home. Met via a lonely hearts ad in October and wed in February. He said to me "she told me to get my beard trimmed before you come back next time". I said, "I did not hear the tone of voice or see the body language but make sure she is not like your Mum (he considered her a control freak, seemed more like a normal Mum to me). His instant reply was "no she isn't. Her daughter warned him off but he put that down to her being a nasty piece of work who did not like him. Others warned him to slow down and not marry in such haste but as he said to me "I behave the same as I did with my Mum, if she warned me about someone I went in the opposite (at times very wrong) direction.

The marriage was over on the wedding day but it took her to hit him on four occasions as well as verbal attacks before he walked out.

He was warned and chose to ignore the warnings. Our Govt is currently warned by Civil Servants and can choose to ignore those warnings. In the future those warnings will not be heard as the top people will be singing from the same narrow hymn sheet as the Minister/Prime Minister.

And democracy and us all will be the poorer for it.
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by Richard Frost » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:10 pm

blythburgh wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:42 am
The Civil Service has pointed out the downside to Brexit. So put a Brexiteer in charge.

Net result you only hear what you want to hear. Not good for working out what is best and maybe having to change your mind.

A friend was talking to DH about his 2nd marriage (a widower at the time). He lived quite a way from her and only spent a some weekends up at her home. Met via a lonely hearts ad in October and wed in February. He said to me "she told me to get my beard trimmed before you come back next time". I said, "I did not hear the tone of voice or see the body language but make sure she is not like your Mum (he considered her a control freak, seemed more like a normal Mum to me). His instant reply was "no she isn't. Her daughter warned him off but he put that down to her being a nasty piece of work who did not like him. Others warned him to slow down and not marry in such haste but as he said to me "I behave the same as I did with my Mum, if she warned me about someone I went in the opposite (at times very wrong) direction.

The marriage was over on the wedding day but it took her to hit him on four occasions as well as verbal attacks before he walked out.

He was warned and chose to ignore the warnings. Our Govt is currently warned by Civil Servants and can choose to ignore those warnings. In the future those warnings will not be heard as the top people will be singing from the same narrow hymn sheet as the Minister/Prime Minister.

And democracy and us all will be the poorer for it.
It was a (Narrow) democratic win by the people. As was the election of Boris Johnson. Boris is doing as the majority want. there is no going back. Live with it for another 4 and a bit years and we might be able to vote in a different government. But that will take a massive effort by the Labour Party. As lets be honest the LD's do not have a hope of getting power. But for the meantime it has to be lived with and put up with by the dissenters.
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Re: When does Resign mean Sacked?

Post by AAAlphaThunder » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:23 pm

We voted, free and fair. This is the choice we made. And I live by it everyday.

I'm hoping for the best outcome for everyone.
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